Log2013-07-30

 [4:19pm] cheilmann: *** Weekly meeting starts in 40 minutes ***
 [4:21pm] cheilmann: NO Microsoft comic chat, No cursing, NO XDCC file bots with ratio, NO chatting as root, NO spitting, Smart Casual dress code.
 [4:22pm] cheilmann: Please add Agenda items at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Engagement/Developer_Engagement/Meetings/2013-07-30
 [4:28pm] jms left the chat room. (Quit: jms)
 [4:40pm] Rik_ is now known as Rik.
 [4:41pm] lorchard: You know, I'm surprised no one's built a web revival of MS Comic Chat
 [4:48pm] chofmann left the chat room. (Ping timeout)
 [4:48pm] canuckistani joined the chat room.
 [4:49pm] • cheilmann appears as puzzled
 [4:50pm] jms joined the chat room.
 [4:51pm] sole: cheilmann: not convincing
 [4:52pm] lorchard: If only you had some sort of graphical avatar with which to visually express your puzzlement
 [4:52pm] cheilmann: apparently people in San Francisco can get free cupcakes from Microsoft today: http://blogs.windows.com/ie/b/ie/archive/2013/07/30/join-us-for-ie-s-cakeout-in-san-francisco-on-tuesday-july-30th.aspx
 [4:53pm] canuckistani: cheilmann: did you plan your trip around free cupcakes? seriously?
 [4:53pm] • canuckistani looks in his email for an agenda for this meeting
 [4:53pm] chofmann joined the chat room.
 [4:53pm] lorchard:  #winning
 [4:57pm] cheilmann: Please add Agenda items at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Engagement/Developer_Engagement/Meetings/2013-07-30
 [4:57pm] wbamberg joined the chat room.
 [4:57pm] Markc joined the chat room.
 [4:58pm] cheilmann: canuckistani: please add, it is so empty
 [5:01pm] cheilmann: OK, let's get this going! Quick introductions as always:
 [5:01pm] cheilmann: Chris Heilmann: principle evangelist for Mozilla, online mythbuster, grammar crime fighter by night
 [5:01pm] Markc: Mark Coggins of Tech Evan
 [5:02pm] jms: Janet Swisher, Community Organizer for developer engagement
 [5:02pm] lorchard: Les Orchard, webdev for developer.mozilla.org
 [5:02pm] canuckistani: Jeff Griffiths, PM for Developer Tools
 [5:03pm] openjck: John Karahalis, project manager for MDN
 [5:04pm] teoli: Jean-Yves Perrier, Tech Writer
 [5:04pm] bmaggs joined the chat room.
 [5:04pm] canuckistani: bmaggs: we're already doing the intros, might as well introduce yourself
 [5:04pm] cheilmann: welcome bmaggs, we're doing the intros
 [5:05pm] • cheilmann gives canuckistani a cookie. Not third party.
 [5:05pm] bmaggs: hey there all
 [5:06pm] • cheilmann wonders if there is a lag.
 [5:06pm] bmaggs: just a mental lag
 [5:06pm] wbamberg: Will Bamberg, tech writer, mostly for Developer Tools
 [5:06pm] chofmann left the chat room. (Ping timeout)
 [5:07pm] bmaggs: Bill Maggs, product for developer-facing products
 [5:07pm] dcamp: Dave Camp
 [5:07pm] dcamp: administrative overhead.
 [5:07pm] cheilmann: Alright, let's move on to the agenda then
 [5:07pm] robcee: Rob Campbell, amused onlooker.
 [5:07pm] • cheilmann sighs - always the rowdy kids in the last row
 [5:08pm] bmaggs: he's in the front row—can't you see him?
 [5:09pm] cheilmann: As pointed out by dcamp last time it can get tricky to keep up with our conference participations. So I looked what ReMo are doing to record their conference participation and found several ways. Whilst this is cooking here is a Wiki page where the TechEvan team is putting up our debriefs
 [5:09pm] cheilmann: i https://wiki.mozilla.org/ReMo/SIGs/Evangelism_Reps/Conference_participation
 [5:09pm] dcamp: thanks
 [5:10pm] cheilmann: This is beneficial as we have a record of events in case they want us again and people can find our talk materials. When there are bits to follow up we will also contact you personally. 
 [5:10pm] cheilmann: Please fill this when you speak, you don't need to be a TechEvan member. We need to get better at knowing where we are and what we tell people out there.
 [5:11pm] alispivak left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving.)
 [5:11pm] bmaggs: So should Engagement do the same thing? Like for the PhoneGap day short talk canuckistani gave?
 [5:11pm] • jms runs to catch a plane
 [5:11pm] chrismills: Chris Mills, senior tech writer, MDN. Proving useless at attending meetings so far 
 [5:11pm] jms left the chat room. (Quit: jms)
 [5:11pm] canuckistani: bmaggs: yes, I should
 [5:11pm] alispivak joined the chat room.
 [5:11pm] fharper: where can I join the meeting?
 [5:11pm] cheilmann: the debrief template has all the info we'd like but don't feel like you need to fill it all
 [5:11pm] cheilmann: https://wiki.mozilla.org/ReMo/SIGs/Evangelism_Reps/Conference_participation/Debrief_template
 [5:11pm] Markc: fharper: you just did
 [5:12pm] canuckistani: there's a link to the debrief vishy and I wrote up for Paxton et al later in the agenda
 [5:12pm] chrismills: cheilmann: I think the conference participation record is a good idea
 [5:12pm] cheilmann: fharper: this is is, it is an IRC meeting
 [5:12pm] fharper: oh OK
 [5:12pm] • canuckistani waves at fharper
 [5:12pm] cheilmann: Good next item
 [5:12pm] alispivak left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving.)
 [5:12pm] canuckistani: dude, YOU'RE the Mozilla guy now 
 [5:13pm] cheilmann: GOOD NEWS EVERYONE </farnsworth> - I went to Senchacon and talked long and wide with them about supporting Firefox and Firefox OS better.
 [5:13pm] fharper: canuckistani: could have been on Vidyo or air mozilla dude 
 [5:14pm] cheilmann: Sencha now wants to meet and see what is broken when they create their code. I remember we had a list when Fastbook came out. So if you used Sencha and you find bugs, please tell me.
 [5:14pm] cheilmann: Also, all the talks at Senchacon have been recorded as screencasts - if you see something you'd like to watch, ping me and I can get you my access code (as they are only available to people who attended)
 [5:15pm] cheilmann: http://senchacon.com/sessions/schedule/
 [5:16pm] bmaggs: cheilmann: were there many consumer app people at Senchacon?
 [5:16pm] bmaggs: or mostly enterprise app developers?
 [5:17pm] cheilmann: bmaggs: very much so, the audience - as described in the debrief - was enterprise but also consumer app folks. Also a lot of people from the government and academia
 [5:17pm] cheilmann: a lot of them for shops like macy's and the like.
 [5:18pm] cheilmann: Sencha has some interesting ideas with Sencha Space - basically Phonegap branded behind their login to allow company apps to run sandboxed away from the main OS
 [5:18pm] cheilmann: sounds like a step backwards to me but the enterprise audience was all over it.
 [5:18pm] bmaggs: good feature for their core audience
 [5:18pm] cheilmann: *** any other news and updates ***
 [5:19pm] cheilmann: speak up now
 bmaggs: I am meeting with Distimo CEO (app analytics company) this week—any questions about the world of apps?
 [5:20pm] jezdez is now known as jezdez|away.
 [5:21pm] cheilmann: Interesting.
 [5:21pm] cheilmann: Did you see the survey we sponsored on apps?
 [5:21pm] canuckistani: yeah, I think so
 [5:22pm] bmaggs: Reference?
 [5:22pm] cheilmann: http://www.developereconomics.com/reports/q3-2013/
 [5:22pm] cheilmann: would be interesting to see if their numbers match
 [5:23pm] bmaggs: Yes, their data is pretty good, based on a wide array of devs, so good to compare
 [5:23pm] canuckistani: bmaggs: also, what size of market for games vs other apps and if their sense of the games market mirrors Martin's email
 [5:23pm] bmaggs: right, and the changing business models
 [5:23pm] cheilmann: Martin's email being what?
 [5:24pm] canuckistani: aside: Martin Best had insights into the changing mobile app market around paid games vs free-to-play
 [5:24pm] bmaggs: Basically thread about how mobile game devs make their money
 [5:24pm] cheilmann: thanks for clarifying
 [5:24pm] canuckistani: free-to-play is winning but there are huge problems with teenagers buying smurfberries
 [5:24pm] canuckistani: i was totally going to clarify
 [5:25pm] cheilmann: this is the internets, I am a teenager who has no patience
 [5:25pm] canuckistani: if anyone is interested I can fwd the email, I don't think there is anything super secret in ther
 [5:25pm] bmaggs: more like the role of the "whales" and the fatigue of a games ecosystem that is based on the math of slot machines and whether it lasts
 [5:25pm] canuckistani: cheilmann: are you buying smurfberries?
 [5:25pm] cheilmann: why not make sure and add it as a note to the wiki of this meeting
 [5:26pm] bmaggs: In any case, I want to know from Distimo about the trend of web- and nybrid apps, ganing or not, whether monetization is increasing, etc
 [5:26pm] cheilmann: Also any news about our new markets seeing that Columbia and Venezuela is around the corner. I am a bit worried that a lot of the data people make decisions on is very US and western europe centric.
 [5:27pm] cheilmann: Maybe we'll face totally new dynamics there. Which would be a great message to give.
 [5:28pm] bmaggs: Definitely, The users studies we are doing in Colombia starting next week should be very informative.
 [5:28pm] harth joined the chat room.
 [5:28pm] canuckistani: bmaggs: that would be good. although apps with metrics might be skewed towards consumer apps not enterprise.
 [5:28pm] canuckistani: cheilmann: I added a wiki template form to the debrief page
 [5:29pm] cheilmann: cool
 [5:29pm] harth left the chat room. (Input/output error)
 [5:29pm] bmaggs: BTW: do any of you have good connections to app developers in Colombia? I am just planning on emailing our rep and joining some of the app meetups I see are happening, but I would really like to meet with as many mobile devs as possible when down there. Please forward any connections you have
 [5:29pm] cheilmann: that is amazing, actually
 [5:29pm] • cheilmann didn't know wiki can do that
 [5:30pm] Markc: bmaggs: remember I sent you an email on that ... 
 [5:30pm] Markc: bmaggs: you need to follow up with Jason Weathersby ... he can make intros
 [5:30pm] cheilmann: ^ what mark said
 [5:30pm] cheilmann: Talking of which, next item on the agenda is Mark with upcoming developer events
 [5:31pm] cheilmann: #2 Upcoming developer events
 [5:31pm] Markc: Well, as before, I'd direct you to the "Where is Mozilla" page for an overview ...
 [5:31pm] Markc: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/events
 [5:31pm] Markc: But, one event I'd like to highlight is our upcoming Firefox OS Workshop in Porto Alegre.
 [5:31pm] Markc: We are doing it right after BrazilJS, and this blog post announces it:
 [5:31pm] Markc: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/07/firefox-os-workshop-august-24th-in-porto-alegre-brazil-sign-up-now/
 [5:31pm] Markc: As you'll see, attendees need to apply and be selected. Please tweet the post and help us.
 [5:31pm] Markc: Thanks!
 [5:33pm] cheilmann: This is a general thing we find with these workshops: it is hard to find app developers that want to port an app that is not iOS. So if you see people doing some cool stuff point them to devengage, we might want to contact them directly
 [5:33pm] canuckistani: ok
 [5:34pm] cheilmann: A great example is the Captain Rogers game. The maker wrote up a great article on how it was done: http://takethecare.com/preparing-for-firefox-os-by-andrzej-mazur/
 Markc: And we can't forget this great vine video of a "phones for apps" app
 [5:35pm] Markc: https://vine.co/v/hKJEruQrPXD
 [5:36pm] cheilmann: Also: if you are asked to speak at a conference, please make sure to send them to dev-events@mozilla.com - we meet every Monday going through all the events coming in (around 20 a week right now!) and we need to have an overview of where we are going. We can also help with sponsorship and finding speakers and swag.
 [5:36pm] cheilmann: What game is that on that vine?
 [5:36pm] Markc: It's something shooter (of course)
 [5:37pm] cheilmann:
 [5:37pm] bmaggs: IT's from the Marketplace?
 [5:37pm] cheilmann: OK next item: Who added the Firefox 25 Aurora uplift?
 [5:37pm] Markc: bmaggs: will be soon
 [5:38pm] canuckistani: cheilmann: me
 [5:38pm] cheilmann: so tell us more
 [5:38pm] canuckistani: As usual, devtools will produce a hacks post on the new developer tools changes in Aurora 25
 [5:39pm] canuckistani: We'll get a volunteer to write it this Thursday at the eng meeting
 [5:39pm] cheilmann: splendid. Is it already scheduled?
 [5:40pm] canuckistani: release is IIRC next week but there is a few days lag on Aurora being widely available, so the following Tues seems to be the best date to publish
 [5:40pm] canuckistani: it is not
 [5:40pm] cheilmann: Robert is on holiday so I can schedule that.
 [5:40pm] canuckistani: I would prefer: Tues August 13th
 [5:40pm] bmaggs: And who will edit in his absence?
 [5:40pm] cheilmann: I can edit.
 [5:40pm] cheilmann: OK, so I will pencil it in for Tuesday.
 [5:40pm] canuckistani: cool, I'l coordinate with you then
 [5:41pm] cheilmann: Thanks for that. Everyone make sure to bang the drum when it is out.
 [5:41pm] bmaggs: It's our Canary, sorta.
 [5:41pm] cheilmann: Who did the "Phonegap Day trip report"?
 [5:41pm] canuckistani: me
 [5:42pm] bmaggs: and Vishy wrote up some stuff too, no?
 [5:42pm] • cheilmann always cringes at Canary, as my dad is a coal miner, I knew these things died.
 [5:42pm] canuckistani: I've linkified it
 [5:43pm] cheilmann: magic stuff, these internet things like links
 [5:43pm] bmaggs: exactly. That is why I love Google...
 [5:43pm] canuckistani: that links to a public google doc that vishy and I produced for snr mgmt
 [5:44pm] cheilmann: I am getting Brian LeRoux in for a video in the Firefox OS interview series. https://hacks.mozilla.org/category/videoseries/ - if you have any questions for him - the more embarrassing, the better (it is Brian) - send them to me or Paul Jarratt
 [5:44pm] canuckistani: that's awesome
 [5:44pm] bmaggs: He's a great interview.
 [5:44pm] cheilmann: Brian being one of the original guys behind PhoneGap
 [5:44pm] cheilmann: I know, we need a good *beep* sound though.
 [5:44pm] bmaggs: Get ready with the bleeper.
 [5:45pm] bmaggs: Close enough, cheilmann
 [5:45pm] cheilmann: On that note, Developer phone plans - ckoehler I guess?
 [5:45pm] canuckistani: nope, still me
 [5:46pm] bmaggs: how so?
 [5:46pm] bmaggs: Lots to say here.
 [5:46pm] cheilmann: he does everything today
 [5:46pm] cheilmann: so let's start with Jeff
 [5:46pm] canuckistani: just to clarify my sens eof where we're at
 [5:46pm] canuckistani: for now, we have some tiny amount of GP devices
 [5:47pm] canuckistani: and very soon ZTE Open devices running 1.0.1
 [5:47pm] Markc: Well, a fair number of GP for workshops
 [5:47pm] Markc: ~800
 [5:47pm] canuckistani: so, the on-device experience is only push-to-phone from simulator for now
 [5:47pm] bmaggs: Yes
 [5:47pm] canuckistani: 800!!!
 [5:47pm] Markc: yes, this is why I didn't want to message that we were done with them
 [5:47pm] canuckistani: and we have Simulator for actual debugging
 [5:48pm] Markc: Rick Fant also has around 200 as far as I understand
 [5:48pm] Markc: for bd, maiknly
 [5:48pm] Markc: mainly
 [5:49pm] ckoehler: Markc I think those are spoken for.
 [5:49pm] angelina joined the chat room.
 [5:49pm] canuckistani: so my point is that - wrt messaging about tooling we have the simulator as the primary tooling experience, manual testing on phones, and the promise of a better experience in 1.2
 [5:49pm] canuckistani: Kevin Hu thinks ZTE Open devices will get 1.2 as early as Nov/Dec but we should be pessimistic about that
 [5:50pm] cheilmann: the better we can get the simulator the more people will be happy, too. Seeing that people are still asking me daily that I should get them a phone as they waited so long.
 [5:50pm] bmaggs: They will be to devs at end of Q4
 [5:50pm] canuckistani: once 1.2 is available on ZTE Open or other devices, we can push messaging about an on-device tools experience
 [5:51pm] bmaggs: WE are going to do dev phones with more than one OEM probably, so maybe that date can change.
 [5:51pm] Markc: The evangelists who work with Firefox OS developers are being asked constantly about remote debugging, etc., so it will be much appreciated
 [5:51pm] cheilmann: also we need touch simulation - is that in the simulator now
 [5:51pm] canuckistani: cheilmann: my point is, for the next 5-6 months the simulator will be the best development experience wrt tools, and the ZTE Open devices will be a) initally limited but b) eventually useful
 [5:51pm] canuckistani: GP? no idea
 [5:52pm] ckoehler: bmaggs there are concrete plans for developer phones from other OEMs?
 [5:52pm] canuckistani: cheilmann: the hacks blog post about Simulator 4 talks about touch simulation 
 [5:52pm] bmaggs: Not certain but very possible.
 [5:52pm] ckoehler: also, do we have specifics on what ZTE will provide with the developer phones coming out in August?
 [5:52pm] cheilmann: and seeing the AGPS issues in some phones a dummy GPS data fallback for the geolocation API would be good. As in, having  a "spoof geodata" setting in the dev settings
 [5:52pm] ckoehler: nightly channel builds, ability to create own builds, etc.
 [5:52pm] canuckistani: ckoehler: what type of specifics?
 [5:53pm] canuckistani: ckoehler: tho, I know very little
 [5:53pm] canuckistani: Kevin Hu is the best person to ask
 [5:53pm] ckoehler: canuckistani yeah, I've been asking.
 [5:53pm] chrismills left the chat room. (Quit: chrismills)
 [5:53pm] canuckistani: ckoehler: my impression is, it's a phone with a charger, running 1.0.1 qualcomm
 [5:54pm] bmaggs: Hey guys, the dev phone arrangements are being handled by CLee and Faramarz, and I am gathering requirements for them. Can people start sending them to me? Just trying to catalog and sort.